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kips 2:24 Tue Jan 3
Early Red Cards

They do kill a game. I think it is highly unlikely that the F.A will sanction stopping the game so that the officials could review the incident. There could, however, be a compromise.

Following a red card sending off in the first half and in the interest of the game, there should be no reason why the Ref and the 4th official could not review the incident at half time.

If both agree that it was a wrong decision then the red card should be instantly rescinded and that player or another player of the manager’s choice should start the second half.

Obviously a similar situation could happen in the second half of a match but at least there is less time left. Again the ref and the 4th official should review at the end of the match to save a possible referral by the club to the F.A.

Yes I know that it’s tough if the 11 man team score in that period but at the moment that is what is happening. An early sending off means they can have a lot longer to take advantage.

If something like this was in operation at yesterday’s match then it would have been all square for the second half at least and we would have enjoyed a much more competitive and evenly balanced match.

Thoughts?

Sniper 10:48 Wed Jan 4
Re: Early Red Cards

I'm sure there was a game at home to Wimbledon where we were a goal down after a couple of minutes then they scored an own goal and had someone sent off within the next few minutes. I think we only won 2-1

Steven P 6:47 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Alex he would have been alerted by his assistant, stopped the game and got a 4th official to give his opinion based on tv evidence...

Or would have heard the scream and done the same process.

tnb 5:15 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

I suspect you're right Boleyn, sadly. The current culture is that if there is any way that a decision can be upheld then that is the evidence that will be prioritised and everything contrary gets ignored.

It's all about the 'reputation of the officials' as admission of an error is seen as undermining them, to the complete neglect of what is right or fair.

What the FA and FIFA stubbornly refuse to see is that ludicrous decisions are doing much more damage to the reputation of the game than an acceptance that they do a difficult job and need support when required.

As of course are attention seeking officials like Dean, Clattenburg, and Oliver, and Webb before that. And to think we used to accuse Uriah Rennie of being a 'superstar ref'.

boleyn8420 5:03 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

There are two pictures that tell two different stories from last night. The first shows Feghouli with both feet off the round, which is the one the FA will use to uphold the red card. The second one shows Feghouli with both feet on the floor and Jones over the top of his legs, quite clearly there is no contact with Feghouli's boots or studs, in fact it looks like Jones has gone in over the top, which he fucking well did. This one will not be viewed as it clearly shows that the red card was bollocks.

Oh and 5 minutes in I said that these linos will miss at least one glaring offside decision in Ibrahimovic's favour. They did that for the second goal quite nicely I thought. They also missed the one in the first half when Randolph saved. I just remember that marginal 0.5 mm offside decision given against Nolan for offside up at Old Trafford. Double standards, always has been with Man U.

tnb 4:52 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Jon,

Agree completely. The good refs would probably admit privately that they would like some extra support. Any who don't see the need, like Dean and Clattenburg I suspect, should be weeded out because that is a worrying sign.

At the moment refs feel they have to make a decision regardless and sometimes it seems they even think a bad decision is better than no decision. Let's allow them to relax about incidents they didn't see or couldn't judge in real time knowing they have backup to deal with it, and get on with the rest of their difficult job.

The good refs should welcome that. As you say, rugby has shown the way and I wouldn't think you'd find a single rugby ref (league or union) who would say they'd rather go back to the dark ages that football clings on to so grimly.

tnb 4:48 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Dean clearly didn't consider any offence had taken place at the time - he didn't even signal play on.

He then turned around to see Jones crying his eyes out and felt that something must have happened, so he'd better do something.

The current system means refs have no help and also seemingly makes them loathe to say they haven't seen something because it's all on their shoulders and they know they'll have to admit that in their report afterwards.

I really don't see what the issue would have been with letting the game continue, and then the next time the ball goes out of play the 4th official looks at a replay and answers 'was there anything punishable there?'. They could even have it cued up ready, whether through common sense that something occurred or perhaps from the ref simply saying 'check that' and moving on until the ball is dead.

That would take up no more extra time than a sending off, arguing, a slow walk off, and a pretend physio visit. It's so fucking simple.

Of course, last night's decision was more down to Dean being a cunt than systems - but if you deal with the system, you also give the cunts less of an excuse to indulge themselves.

goldstar 4:46 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Woodford Green 3:32 Tue Jan 3

I agree but I would add one more prong to your proposed rule: 2 yellow cards and you're ejected from the game and subject to suspension for future games, but you can be substituted for the rest of the current game.

JonWHUFC 4:29 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

I have said many times that football could learn a lot from Rugby League. Reviewing major incidents does not hold the game up. I like the "On Report" rule also. So, yesterday, he was not sure and guessed it was a bad tackle because of Jones Oscar performance. He should have awarded the free kick whichever way he saw (or didn't see) it. He could then have put both players on report to be reviewed later. A panel then decides on any retrospective action. IMO, yesterday, Fegs would have got a yellow as both feet were off the floor and Jones would have been banned for blatant cheating. This could actually stamp out a lot of the unnecessary play acting that is ruining the game. On Report is a brilliant advantage for the ref to be allowed to control the game without getting things majorly wrong like what happened to Fegs.

Grumpster 4:17 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

The odd bit of technology (goal line etc) has been good for the game, but some stuff getting mentioned now is ridiculous.

Other than early red's are fairly rare, it's only because people have let the game change so much that all of this shit is happening.

When it was a man's game, it wasn't an issue as you were still actually allowed to do strong challenges without the opponent on the end of it rolling around and crying like a little baby.

It's like a non-contact sport nowadays and it's only going to get worse due to the money in the game, so no point moaning about it.

Alex V 4:17 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

>>> if he was a decent ref he would admitted he didn't fully see it as he was turning away

But that ref wouldn't give the red in the first place. Most refs tend to stick with their on-the-pitch interpretations.

I doubt they will ever have refs in the stands who can overrule on interpretation. Only on the letter of the law.

boleynkid 4:11 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

It is about time a "holding area" was introduced for players sent off pending a review by the 4th (or 5th) official.

A wrong decision like that one is a game changer and I can't see why technology couldn't be used for this. They now use goal line technology as they accept a wrong decision can have a major effect on a game so why not do this as well.

This is an easy solution and would not delay the game and a wrong decision would be quickly rectified.

Far Cough 4:09 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

The ref doesn't have to make a decision, that is what a review would be for, just like in RU

Steven P 4:08 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Alex - if he was a decent ref he would admitted he didn't fully see it as he was turning away and was there any afters etc? and then ask the 4th official to review. No card or foul had been given yet.

strong dreams 4:03 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

There is absolutely no reason that there cannot be an on the spot review. Would take seconds and could be made with the 4th official involved.

charleyfarley 4:03 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Alex if they didn't have refs in the stands to overturn decisions there would be be no point in having them.
Their remit would be if the ref was wrong they could change the decision end of

Alex V 3:54 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

One problem with reviews is that I think they won't work the way fans might expect. You can't have a ref giving one interpretation and then another giving a different one in the stands - they won't do that. The ref in the stands will overturn only when clear evidence is provided - on whether there's contact or mistaken identity. Neither would save Feghouli I think.

Huffers 3:53 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

It is silly. Before Fegholui was even in the changing rooms, Arbeloa, Oxford & Masuaku were all watching it back on their phones with the subs and coaching staff leaning over and looking.

Kidders 3:38 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

My idea is that the player is subsequently replaced by one from the bench, why should the other 10 players and 50 odd thousand supporters suffer cos a pro footballer has the touch of an Elephant.
The offender gets a 3 match ban as a punishment in any case which is sufficient. I also agree that players like Jones should get reviewed afterwards.

Woodford Green 3:32 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

How about dangerous tackles are only yellows but are subject to a post match review and that if found guilty it results in a heavy suspension (5 games).

The Stoat 3:20 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

Red card appeal just gone in from the Hammers

The Joker 3:18 Tue Jan 3
Re: Early Red Cards

The answer is for all red card decisions to be reviewed immediately by a TV official in the stadium. You can throw in penalty awards too, sorting out two contentious issues with one solution. Both instances usually result in some slight delay due to protests, player treatments etc so wouldn't really hold up the game significantly.

It won't happen though as football is corrupt, imho. There is a definite vested interest in keeping as many grey areas as possible that can be manipulated / influenced by a single individual (the ref), for other interests. With the money in the game and the use of technology in so many less lucrative sports, it is extremely suspect that it hasn't been introduced, to me anyway.

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